Looking at very critical and identifiable elite performance results was one of the reason USA Hockey investigated the youth hockey scene. The results at the top weren’t matching the opportunities at the bottom. Elite performance reflects the direction of the youth culture, especially in grassroots organizations.
Over the past four Olympic Games in wrestling, the performance levels have steadily declined. Looking only at the medals won by male athletes (freestyle and Greco-Roman), the United States medal count is as follows: 1996 – 8; 2000 – 7; 2004 – 4; 2008 – 2. There were 20 medal opportunities in 1996, 18 in 2000, and 14 in 2004 and 2008. The won U.S. medals at 40%, 39%, 29%, 15% of the weight classes, respectively.
Considering the past four world championships prior to this year, this is the medal count: 2006 – 7; 2007 – 4; 2009 – 3; 2010 – 0. The U.S. did add two medals in the 2011 World Championships, however, there is an obvious downward trend.
The United States is definitely one of the largest populated wrestling country in the world. Nationwide, there are over 155,000 members in USA Wrestling and over 270,000 participating in high school wrestling. We have a robust talent pool young athletes, however, our results at the highest levels don’t indicate that we’re developing them very well.
USA Gymnastics has done something similar to USA Hockey in terms of athlete development and they have shown a sizeable increase in Olympic medals for the men over the past three Olympic Games. They went from 1 medal in 2000, to 8 in 2004, and 11 in 2008. When long term development is applied correctly, it should lead to elite level success because of our large number of youth athletes. Keep in mind, the majority of athletes currently representing the United States at the elite levels grew up in the sports culture of that encouraged more competitions for youth wrestlers and they’re not performing at the highest levels. Wrestling is going in the opposite direction of gymnastics and hockey.
Two years ago, USA Wrestling developed a new program called the U.S. Future Olympian Rankings. “The program is designed to recognize the performance of America’s most talented wrestlers, based upon actual results in major USA Wrestling events.” Specific national and regional events in Freestyle, Greco-Roman, and Folkstyle wrestling are used to score points for athletes between the ages of eight and thirteen. This is the same demographic that USA Hockey targets with the ADM because it is the optimal window of trainability and the greatest loss of retention. Hockey decided to eliminate various competitions while wrestling has added more. With the U.S. Future Olympian Rankings, it is implied to athletes, coaches and parents that the path to becoming an Olympian is by competing in more age level national tournament. Furthermore, there is a large contingent of parents within the wrestling community that want even more events. To meet consumer demands, NUWAY now offers a 6 & under division at their National Championships. Is it possible that wrestling’s approach is part of the problem?
We’re creating more opportunities to facilitate the more is better attitude and at the same time, the performance of our elite levels is declining? Is this a coincidence or are the two related? Is it time for wrestling to consider the benefits of Long Term Athlete Development?
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Once again you make the connection that the Olympic results are a result of youth over training between 8 - 13. Great opinion, but nothing more than that.
ReplyDeleteDoes it have to do with anything with our society as having the well-earned reputation of being the laziest and least educated when compared with European countries? We have the most issues with our youth and a much higher youth incarceration rate. We have a much higher drug/alcohol rate, etc. Now do you blame all these on early training?
I would suspect that the majority of former US wrestling champions were these kids that had heavy handed parents (you use the term over zealous). We've both been around Olympic Champions...and they all have stories of growing up with very tough parents who pushed them beyond the limits of society's norms. Even Ben Peterson, who is one of the most humble Olympic champs I've meet, speaks of his father getting in fist fights with his brother over behavior and often describes abnormally high expectations from his parents. In today's standards his father's behavior would have been considered abusive, however he raised a wonderful family that went on to accomplish great things. Gable's dad...crazy obsessive. He would often leave work early just to watch as many practices as he could. Ask Sanderson about his childhood with his dad and 3 brothers. I know of many more Olympic champs.... with similar accounts.
Did some champs start training later? Yes, of course! Look at Mark Schultz, didn't start until later in high school, but prior to that he trained in gymnastics with the same intensity as young wrestlers and eventually made the switch. He was also put in early morning church classes 1 hour before school all through school and had extremely "zealous" parents (as you would describe it).
If you check out the childhood of the Olympic champions...you'll find almost all came from the families that you consider ignorant parents.
Your blog and comments have bounced around. If you are talking about emotional abuse/poor parenting--yes that is one subject that even the best parents need to keep on hand.
If you are talking about ratio of practices to tournaments, that's another topic. We do much more practice then tournaments, but we do a lot of tournaments. My boy loves it AND competition provides a platform to see the progression of his skill level. Wrestling matches with the same few kids in practice is not the same.
You keep trying to draw a line between expecting too much from them when they're young will burn them out when they're old...and none of these studies you inter mix with your opinion addresses that.
Now you response might be, "well some kids are the exception and they can handle that."....but that isn't what you've been saying...instead you're now saying we aren't getting as many gold medals because our youth over train or train to early--but when you look at the very best our nation has had to offer--they don't fit the mold you are looking for.
You keep trying to find studies and stats to prove your opinion--and you'll never find them. It just isn't there....
Go away, TROLL. You have a personal axe to grind with Kevin and people don't want to hear it.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure this entire blog is about Kevin's opinion. That's why I read it.
Anonymous #1,
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to hear a different opinion, but your's isn't supported by facts either. You mention the childhood of these fantastic wrestlers but never mention how many tournaments they attended growing up. Many of the wrestlers you mention grew up in a different time, in a completely different culture. There weren't as many tournaments for children to attend when they were growing up.
Also, you named three wrestlers that had "heavy handed" parents (as you mention it), where's the other 200,000? What happened to them and their wrestling career? Do they have a relationship with their dads? How do they treat their children? I would like to see some facts on this.
Children who grew-up in Dan Gable's time lived in a very different world than children who grow-up today do. Kids now have pressures coming from all aspects of their life. Is the added "heavy handed" parent necessary. It is one thing to encourage your child, keep them accountable and present the best opportunity for them and another to put a crushing amount of pressure on them. I don't know how old your child is,(because you choose to write anonymously) but guaranteed most of the young kids you see with "heavy handed" parents quit wrestling by the time they are 16 because they are burnt out. Gable and Sanderson are the exception to the rule, don't let you kid be the rule.
Leave Kevin alone everyone. Don't you know he wrestled the greatest match in the history of Wisconsin wrestling! It wasn't Kemp vs Gable, it was one of Kevin's high school matches at state. Kevin really feels it was the biggest match in the state in the past 100 years.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Kevin I took a screenshot of your comments before you erased them when confronted. Hey, you also erased that silly video you put up of you warming up for a match for the Badgers. You edited it, you took the time to add some cool music, but all it is of you warming up--no wrestling? Who does that?
Kevin you are obsessed with yourself. The silly videos you post, you don't see it but all the crap you spew to the boys is an attempt to hear yourself speak and put youself in power and you are not used to people not buying into your rubbish.
Yes Kevin you do have a lot of people that likes you, however you are not viewed as the diva you think you are.
Last thing, using your scientific results argument I could just as easily argue that since Victory Wrestling it has resulted in fewer Olympic champions. Silly argument right?
You will be happy to know I'm done posting and you can return to your bubble of expertise.
Rachel let me explain this so a woman can understand. We aren't talking about 200,000 wrestlers, in this blog Kevin is taking about what it takes to be the best and why he feels our country isn't doing better. Kevin has concluded that we don't develop wrestlers well at the higher levels because they're pushed to hard as youth...however that contradicts the statements from the majority of Olympic champions themselves when they describe they're childhood.
ReplyDeleteWow anonymous! Resorting to a personal attack after a "woman" thoroughly refuted and disproved your unsubstantiated argument. Do you teach your children such poor sportsmanship as well?
ReplyDeleteAlthough this is not my blog, I certainly see where Kevin has the right to remove comments that he deemed to be obscene, in a false light, or are merely insults written under the cloak of anonymity.
ReplyDeleteAn anonymous message will never have a sliver of impact as with your own. Libel is never a consideration for the anonymous paper tiger.
Justin Bystrom
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYour arguments are poor, your facts are attenuated and your reasoning is affected by emotions. Some might not have seen your ignorance, but you opened your mouth and took all doubt away.
Since there was a reference to Cael Sanderson's upbringing, I figured this might be the appropriate place to post this. I'm pretty sure that Troll/anonymous will figure out how to attack Cael on this, as this is clearly not backed up with anything other than his opinion. But what would Cael know about wrestling?
ReplyDelete(here is the link: http://www.washingtonwrestlingreport.com/cael_on_parents.htm)
QUESTION:
Do you ever find yourself pushing your younger
brother a little harder in hopes that he may even surpass your amazing
achievements? - Josh (Ballston Spa, NY)
CAEL:
"Hi Josh,
Thanks
for the question. I don't push my brother any harder than I do anyone
else on the team. My brother is family--I love him just for that. I
realize that the coach/athlete relationship is just a small part of our
relationship and will just be a short time in our lives.
I'm
going to go off on tangent here. I have several parents ask me how to
make their kids dominating wrestlers and most don't listen. They are
obviously just expecting me to reinforce what they already think and if
I don't, they don't listen. They expect me to say the crazy stuff like
"have them run sprints around the block dragging cinder blacks, or feed
them raw meat, lock them in a closet with a badger, have their five
year old do 100 pushups after they finish their 4 hour workout, take
them to every tournament possible as soon as they can walk, have a belt
ready to whip them if they lose, etc etc.
I tell them that the
biggest mistake parents can make with their children in athletics (or
anything for that matter) is to blur the lines between why they support
and love them. It is very easy for kids to mistake why a parent is
proud of them. Kids needs to know that their parents love them just
because they are their son or daughter.
To help kids reach
their greatest potential, they need to know that their parents support
their effort--not whether they win or lose. A lot of parents give their
kids the impression that they are only proud of them if they win.
Parents are the most important people in the world to their kids.
Wrestling is already a tough sport. If a kid thinks he has to win to
make his parents proud of him--that is a ton of pressure. In my
opinion, that is the greatest pressure in the world, especially for a
kid. A parent not being proud of you is far more frightening then the
scariest opponent. Most kids won't last long in sports in that kind of
environment. And the kids who do tough it out, or have no choice, are
usually the ones who develop mental problems. They are the ones who
usually end being labeled "head cases." The kids whose parents simply
expect their best effort in training and in competition are the ones
who have the better chance of reaching their potential. "
(continued)
ReplyDelete"My
advice for parents who want to help their kids get the most out of
sports is to simply support your kids, support their best effort, keep
things in perspective for them (wrestling is just a game), reinforce
that giving it 100% is the goal and be proud of whatever comes after
that. Parents with young athletes, make the kid think it is his idea to
wrestle, let him set the schedule and decide how many tournaments he
wants to go to. Sure, you can manipulate (bad word) what they think
they want to do-- but let it be their idea. If your child wants to go
to a tournament, make sure he puts the work in to be prepared for it.
Make sure he has the grades in school that you want him to have to be
eligible for you to take him to tournaments and even to practice. It
takes a game plan like that to help your kid go all the way with
wrestling.
Nothing will teach your child how to be successful
in life better then wrestling. Don't worry about wins and losses with a
young wrestler. If you make it about wins and losses, your kid probably
won't last long enough in the sport to get the most out of it. The
ultimate goal of sports should be to get an education and prepare for
the rest of your life and of course have fun. Think long term. It's
more common than not that the parents who have their kids going 100
miles an hours are going to be doing well early. Do that if your goal
is to have the best 8 year old wrestler you can. If you want to create
a good high school wrestler, or even college, do what I suggested. Of
course, there are exceptions to every rule. There are kids who want to
compete at every youth intergalactic championship out there. My advice
for them would be to take them to a few tournaments but make it a
privilege. Hold them back a little so they really develop a love to
compete. Tough love is also important to develop a good wrestler.
That's a different subject though. My mom was not afraid to get in my
face and let me know if she didn't think I gave it my best.
For
young wrestlers who are reading this--it's important that you realize
that your parents, no matter how much pressure you think they put on
you, just want what is best for you. They want you to win because they
want to see you be successful. They want to see you be happy. Even if
they don't communicate that message the best--it's the deep-rooted
truth. Know that it is the truth. It is. Know that your parents and
family go to tournaments to support you, not to see you win. Knowing
that this is the truth, and it is, should take some unrealistic
pressure and let you attack your goals--for you.
Back to your
question. My brother always gives it his best effort so I am very proud
of him for that. He has set lofty goals for himself and I believe he
can achieve them. One thing about my brothers and I is that we never
competed with each other over achievements. When we were scrimmaging in
practice, or playing football in the backyard, it was war. But when it
came to outside competition we were always very supportive of each
other. I remember feeling worse if my brothers lost than if I did. In
fact, my senior year in college was probably easier for me because I no
longer had a brother to worry about.
So what I'm saying is
that my brother and I aren't concerned with my achievements or anyone
else's--we are focused on him being the best he can be. When you start
worrying about things outside of your control, like anything other then
being the best you can be, then you make it more difficult to reach you
potential.
Thanks!
Cael "
Something to consider.. Cael still had a rough childhood with regards to his parents. Is he giving great advice? You bet! But when you heard him speak in person and he talks about how rough and the pressure he had growing up, he was raised by one of those parents he's saying not to be. Has anyone noticed a theme that very successful athletes, rarely and I mean rarely had a kid that is that good in their sport?
ReplyDeleteI didn't know Sanderson had a rough childhood or a lot of pressure from his dad before. I thought it was opposite (supportive, loving and not a lot of tournaments). Is there an article or video that I can watch that shows his childhood experience?
ReplyDeleteThe argument that very successful athletes don't have kids that are as good tells me that maybe the athlete knows that success isn't as important and as a good childhood. I think we should learn from that, too. Maybe dad was thinking of doing what was best for the kid and the only time that kid actually has a say is when he raises his own kids. Maybe all that success wasn't worth it or maybe it doesn't mean that much to them. Does that make sense?
I'll stay out of the bickering on here, but Sanderson had a tough dad who if memory servers correct, was a former wrestler and extremely competitive. He has said several times his dad would throw his keys at him when he would make a mistake during home practice with his brothers. I agree with the article posted above. Few Olympic champions want to put their kids through the stuff they had to go through to rise to the top.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how Kevin's YouTube page has anything to do with what he's saying in these blogs. I also don't see him calling himself an expert. He explained a few of his experiences, but he referred to experts over and over in these posts and came to his own conclusion combining the evidence and his personal experiences. That seems pretty logical to me.
ReplyDeleteIt depends on what your athletic goals are. The American system is designed to build state and NCAA champions, which most youth aspire to be. The Russian system is to build World and Olympic champions, which most also aspire to be. Russians generally don’t start wrestling until age 10-12, with mostly gymnastics and fundamentals. They will compete in a couple of tournaments. As you get older everything increases, until you are old enough to compete at a World or Olympic level.
ReplyDeleteStatistics have shown that the Russia gets more World and Olympic gold than Americans, if you are looking for statistics. It has nothing to do with technique, but the overall system.
Mr. Black might be also realizing that other systems might be better to build World and Olympic champions, now that he works for USA wrestling. From the youth stand point. It will be tough to change the dynamics of the American wrestling culture.
Although, there exceptions. I would suggest if you start the 5-10 year old in gymnastics and maybe a rec. wrestling program, then slowly increase everything.
I have known very successful wrestlers who didn’t even start wrestling until high school.
So Kevin, here's a question for you...Do you agree with the current plan by Bobby Douglas and Zeke Jones to rip kids away from their families and homes while as young as freshman in high school, moving them to Colorado Springs so they can train "full-time" to be an Olympian? They are even going so far as to have the parent of one of these potential kids start a private school so they can be home-schooled while training and living in Colorado Springs? Is this really in the kids best interest overall?? I realize the women's program started this several years ago and the selling point now is "We're looking for the next Henry Cejudo and you could be him"! But the problem is, that may have worked out okay for Henry, since he was never going to qualify for college anyways, but who's to say that socially and psychologically it's better for them? We used to rip Germany, USSR, China, etc for the way they treated their young athletes and not being concerned for their overall well-being. Now it seems like we're trying to create the very same system.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the question regarding the developmental plans of the men's freestyle team. To be honest, I'm torn on the idea. I believe in Zeke, Bobby and USA Wrestling, so naturally I want to be supportive. On the other hand, the mission of USAW is to help others reach their full human and athletic potential. Often times, the human development is ignored in high level athletics. That being said, Zeke was hired to win gold medals (world and Olympics) and the current system he is operating with hasn't done very well with the exception of Cejudo. I applaud his efforts to re-examine the way things are done and not stick with ideals that might not be working. Doing things the way they've always been done for the sake of tradition, pride, etc. is never the best way, in my mind. I am skeptical of this model in the United States, though, and I'm not certain it has paid huge dividends in the women's program, either.
ReplyDelete